Attendees Offer Takeaways from AXS DRIVE in St. Louis.
Attendees Offer Takeaways from AXS DRIVE in St. Louis.
Abe Madkour:
A special Morning Buzzcast coming to you from St. Louis.
And this is your Morning Buzzcast for Thursday, September 21st. I'm Abe Madkour.
This is a special Morning Buzzcast discussion. We're coming to you from St. Louis at our DRIVE Conference, which we present in partnership with AXS. We've spent a couple of days here talking about a number of issues related to revenue, ticketing, venue operations, and really monetization and monetization optimization. I know that's a lot, but we did discuss a lot over these couple of days.
I'm joined by three of my colleagues, Bret McCormick, Austin Karp, and David Broughton, who have been on the ground in St. Louis for the full amount of the event, and, gentlemen, we covered so much.
I'm going to come first to you, Bret McCormick, about what was the theme or takeaway from the couple of days here in St. Louis?
Bret McCormick:
Yeah. We had a really good panel on Tuesday early in the program, and Jon Niemuth from Gensler, we were talking about premium. He made the point that premium can mean a lot of different things in different scenarios, different environments, different parts of the building, how much it costs, the things that you're able to do.
I thought that was really interesting because that gets to kind of this idea of premium for all. It shouldn't be something that's limited to the person or company that is getting a $200,000 annual lease or whatever, so I thought that was an interesting point. Especially as we've got a lot of construction coming up in the next five years, it'd be interesting to see how that's baked in from the start.
Abe Madkour:
People want to feel like they're having a premium experience, but it doesn't need to be over the top or they don't need to be priced out from that.
Bret McCormick:
Right, right. I mean, it could be just experiences added on to general admission tickets or, again, you could create an interesting environment in the stadium, standing room-only, things like that. To hear Jon say that, a designer, he's kind of repeating what teams are telling him that they're interested in or that they're learning, so I found that pretty interesting.
Abe Madkour:
David Broughton, you've been in this space for a long time. What stood out to you?
David Broughton:
I really like the fact that everyone's acknowledging the evolution of data, not just from ticket pricing, but to back-of-the-house stuff, not just fan experience, but to concession prices, to am I going to use data differently from a concert than I am from a sporting event?
I like the evolution of the use of data in ways that we couldn't think of, even ways that don't necessarily produce a monetary ROI. Some folks were talking about, "Well, we use data gathered from players coming in or fan experiences outside the stadium." So it's not just about ticketing anymore.
I think one of my favorite quotes from the whole weekend was Vicki Bryant. She's been with the St. Louis Cardinals for two decades. She actually helped open Busch Stadium in 2006. Before that, she said, "We're finally admitting that no matter how smart we think we are, no matter how long we've all been in this business, the greatest thing is to be able to say, 'Wow, this data showed me something completely different than what I expected.'"
Abe Madkour:
Yeah, the pervasiveness of using data throughout the sports ecosystem and throughout organizations was a theme throughout the conference.
Austin Karp, what stood out to you and why?
Austin Karp:
Abe, I was particularly fascinated how teams, leagues, events, technology providers are all pushing the envelope to create touch points for fans beyond the game, beyond the event to get them involved, to increase the fanhood out there.
There are huge segments of fan bases out there that are not going to ever step into a building, that are not going to get to an event. How do you capture those fans? How do you grow your fan base? Is it a technology that chasm is creating where you're creating a remote immersive experience, where anywhere in the world you'll be able to potentially watch a game or an event like you're at center ice, like you're at mid-court for an NBA game? The growth of sports betting and more and more states coming online, how that can help drive fandom.
I liked what NASCAR is doing with their fan loyalty program where you can check in virtually. You don't even have to be at the track. You can be part of that program just by watching a race from your couch, just by checking in on their fantasy app.
Or even what the Braves are doing down in Atlanta with their Battery. You don't necessarily have to be in Truist Park, okay? What they have created around that ballpark with the Battery is bringing more and more fans. 10 million fans a year are coming through that place. That's on par with a lot of these Disney parks and that was a stat that really caught my eye. So I'm really keeping an eye on what everyone is doing to increase those touchpoints.
David Broughton:
I'm going to piggyback on that. One of the things that's really exciting to me is the fact that we talk about AI, we talk about all sorts of virtual and shared realities, but you just said it, 10.1 million people came into the Battery. To me, I attend a lot of live events and I think that the fact that 10.1 million people just came to a mixed-use development for a sporting venue tells me that public assembly is still alive and well.
Abe Madkour:
All good points.
Another thing that was a theme, Bret McCormick, I'll come back to you, pricing, elasticity of pricing, whether we are starting to price people out. You mentioned it on premium, but it also came up from Bryan Perez and Jessica Gelman.
Bret McCormick:
Yeah, this sort of surprised me from Bryan, honestly, because he would be the beneficiary of this explosion of demand for big events, especially post-COVID, which led to huge growth, big business results across sports. But prices keep rising. We are in like an inflationary period that's been kind of tough for some consumers. Everybody has seen a picture on social media of an $18 beer and had a comment about that.
I thought it was interesting to see Bryan from inside the industry saying he is concerned that the industry is, to quote him, he said, "I'm worried a little bit that we're all getting hooked on the drug of how good business is right now, and I worry that we're being too aggressive on price increases." His message was basically we need to be careful so we don't kill the golden goose and I think that is something to definitely keep in mind.
Abe Madkour:
Not a new message, but it was interesting because he said it right after he said the business was better than ever.
Bret McCormick:
That they're crushing. That they're crushing, so it wasn't... And Jess Gelman the day earlier said her biggest headwind or concern was that we are pricing out the average fan from experiencing the live event.
Abe Madkour:
So with that, Austin Karp, I want to come back to you in terms of what stood out in terms of any specific speaker, panel or moment.
Austin Karp:
I'll go back to a session or a presentation and a Q&A we had with Jeremy Strife from the Braves, just talking about what you can do with your team as a brand, how you can grow it if you do it right and he was advising them. He was giving them points on what not to do, what to do.
Because we write about and we read about a lot, a lot of teams, whether it's college now, whether it's pro, could be motor sports, wanting to build those ancillary developments around their facilities to keep fans there, get them there early, keep them there late. I mean, we see it now with the University of Tennessee wanting to do it in Knoxville. So I'm curious to see how that continues to grow, how people can follow the model that the Braves have done in Cobb County.
Abe Madkour:
It is the best and it still blows my mind that some people still aren't awake to what they did in Cobb County. It is really striking to me how there are still some naivete about the scope of that development and how successful it's been. And to your point, that session had the most people taking photos of the screens to really chronicle everything that Jeremy said-
Austin Karp:
They thought they were getting like Spycraft-type information up there.
Abe Madkour:
Well, no, because he admitted, well, how many teams have gone through there? More than a hundred teams. And he said, "Right now, I tell them two words." What did he say? Maintain control. Maintain control of the development. Bring on partners you trust who have done it before, but maintain control.
I still think the Braves do not get enough credit for what they've done and the fact that they never won Facility of the Year that year for that complex still, you can tell, bothers me, but it's because it's a template for every other organization looking at mixed use. And he talked to you about how they're developing the last 14 and a half acres that are still undeveloped at that complex and they're going to do that within the next year or so.
Austin Karp:
They're taking specs of land they didn't even think were going to be developed.
Abe Madkour:
Correct.
Austin Karp:
They have power generators there that they now had to move around because Truist is like, "We want a large building in this spot."
But like you said, Abe, they are maintaining control. Whether that's as a 50% partner on the hotel side, whether that's a 50% partner on some of the apartments that are around, they are getting their fingers into so many pies with that development.
Abe Madkour:
I totally agree. David Broughton, what stood out to you, speaker, panel, discussion?
David Broughton:
Actually one of mine was a hallway discussion where we talked about the sort of fan experience as a brand itself. So the Braves even said, "Yes, we're the Braves, we're a brand, Truist Park, Battery is a brand," but fan experience as a brand is what one team told me that "we value just, we like being, the experience coming in, but we like the fact that people talk about our fan experience almost separately from the way they talk about our team brand."
Abe Madkour:
I will say one other theme I heard, I'm sure you all heard, make it easier for the fan, from doorway to the facility and back home. Even people who've been in the business 25, 30 years said that we still have a lot of work to do to make the buying experience, the accessibility experience, the food and beverage experience, and even the act of watching an event easier for fans and families.
Last thing, biggest crowd for one of the sessions in my mind, the AI session about selling tickets, standing room-only, all the way back to the doorway. So I think we're going to probably do more sessions on that in the future.
Before we sign off, gentlemen, anything else to say from St. Louis before we depart?
Bret McCormick:
My session was the same time as the AI one, so they should have been in mine.
Austin Karp:
I'd liked seeing the energy that Carolyn Kindle brought to the stage. It was very, very cool to see a young owner very energized about her city, about a sport. This is the first time her family has been a majority owner of a sports team like that and just what it has meant to the city in year one for that MLS club.
David Broughton:
I really enjoyed the energy in two different sessions, Carolyn Kindle with the St. Louis and then Allison Howard with KC Current. I thought that just the energy in both those sessions was fantastic.
Abe Madkour:
So that is a special Morning Buzzcast with Bret McCormick, Austin Karp and David Broughton. I'm Abe Madkour. We are coming to you from the DRIVE Conference that we present with AXS in St. Louis. Stay healthy, be good to each other, I'll speak to you on Friday.